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JMC | Philosophy - Posted on 2006-10-14 13:31:07
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Philosophy - NuTang Philosophical Philosophers Minds Meet

Due to the fact that there is an ever-growing post and Writings at NuTang of immense cogitations:

May this NuTang Forum serve as a place for all us NuTang Philosophers to philosophize in further detail the analysises and expressions of our intellect.

The idea for this Philosophy NuTang Forum came in collaboration with hmdaswani and myself. Together, we would like to encourage and welcome all input, be you of Philosophical Minds or merely opinionated.

In your reply, Please link the Readers to your reading room if you have one, so we may also enjoy your Writings.

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hmdaswani | Mirror Neurons - Posted on 2006-11-04 08:26:42
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Some psychological ideas I have heard about mirror neurons.

- People become more comfortable with a person who tends to mimic them as well. There is this bond that tends to occur when you see the other person somewhat "mirror" your actions. It could be possible that it is an effect of the time being spent in that one moment where both parties have reached a similar brain wavelength.

- The whole idea of the similar wavelength could also be seen when a person you're talking to tends to say some words the same as you at the same time you did (ever had that happen? Me, several times). This usually occurs with a person you find to be very agreeable with your thoughts and ideas.

- Try reading my ideas on free will, it might surprise you that it can, in a way, relate to the idea that all the external environment has influenced a major part of your thought process in producing such output behavior.

JMC | RE: Concept on accident and theory on Déjà vu - Posted on 2006-11-05 22:03:51
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Hello to all who venture here to read; a slice of NuTang we threaded together for Philosophy. Oh but don’t let that word scare you away! Philosophy is but the sharing of thoughts. ‘No One’ is right and ‘No One’ is wrong. And that my dear Readers is the fun of Philosophy. Be you present rather by coincidence or some unforeseen fate that has seemingly mysteriously led you to this junction, Welcome.

I personally would like to again thank hmdaswani for taking the helm and contributing his collective, intriguing thoughts; while I have been out, extremely ill.

Be this ever so coincidental or part of a greater unforeseen plan, I have been undergoing rigorous test for my migraines. It would seem, the deeper I go into the realm of my unconscious consciously than the more headaches I have. So basically, in a nut shell; currently I am having my head examined, if only to prove there is a healthy brain beneath the layers of my scalp. I mention this because hmdaswani included for us, in these Philosophy threads; from his blog; “Concept on accident and theory on Déjà vu”. Hence, is it my humanist habits that have led me to my health condition or is it that gnawing feeling in my gut, which I have undergone this entire complete scenario once before?
If I gather together the basic concepts of hmdaswani, we get:

Chance/no knowledge, through knowledge we know the effect/the outcome, concept of free will, how is it possible that accidents don’t happen by chance, Coincidencial, karmas, and Déjà vu.

In re to coincidental, is it coincidental that middaymoon mentioned the ‘mirror neurons’ shortly after hmdaswanis’ thread? Or is the concept of a deeper force at work in effect? Note that mirror neurons are like “empathy neurons, used to provide rational rather than religious grounds for ethics” quote resource. They are as the lyrics from Blue October go, “little reels of tape”. I surmise, having the advantage of knowing the age of middaymoon – barely in his teenage years; that middaymoon empathized with hmdaswani. Unable to put his empathy in words, he subconsciously remembered a word he once or recently learned, mirror neurons, which was brought to his conscious level and expressed; yet unbeknown to middaymoon was the why the word even surfaced in his mind.

In re to hmdaswanis’ how is it possible that accidents don’t happen by chance? I agree to some extent. Yet, I am firm believer that when it is your time to leave this world, it is your time, rather by a freak accident of slipping on a banana and being run over by a truck, by karma itself, or by a high power calling you. Take these true life events, one did actually happen in my city:

An elderly lady was in a car accident. Other than shock up and naturally startled she was ok and her car was fine except for some minor dents. So immediately after this accident, she continues to drive down the road about a block or so, only to be killed by a head on collision from an on-coming vehicle.

Talk about having a bad day, it is pouring rain outside. A man runs out of gas. Gets out, walks to gas station. While bring the gas back to his car, he is struck and killed by an automobile.

In re to hmdaswanis’ concept of free will, I totally agree. A Higher Power can not intervene. However; one must be of a religious nature to accept this concept. Therefore; this would be more of an ethical belief/opinion than fact.

In re to hmdaswanis’ on Déjà vu: the subconscious “knows the controls and the situations; it probably just brought it up” when we feel as if this has happened before. I would have to kindly disagree at this point and time. I think hmdaswani is interjecting the concept of 'Automatic Pilot'. As in one can drive a car without being aware of every body function and thought process, such as steering, looking, foot maneuver. However; I will save my theory on Déjà vu for another thread!

JMC | Déjà vu - Posted on 2006-11-05 22:06:23
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Premonitions or ‘little reels of tape’ embedded in our subconscious of our life already predefined?

hmdaswani | Comment on JMC - Posted on 2006-11-07 06:39:39
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Welcome back and thanks for your comment.

I fully agree that the whole idea of lack of free will is very much dependent on one's religious belief, as one or more of its supporting ideas is God and Karma.

My whole idea on Deja Vu is that there are many occurences in life that we have seen, but have somewhat ignored, and yet is stored in our memory. I do believe and agree that we cannot go on "Autopilot", but, just like ignoring banner advertisements, or what Coca Cola is doing using "subliminal advertising", we have gone through so much different experiences without even realizing it. We were fully conscious, but not necessarily aware or "in tune" to realizing that item is there, but it has embedded itself in our mind.

I do like to think that we were all aware and conscious, but have chosen to ignore, and thus, not keep it in the conscious memory state, where we can remember it later on. It is stored in the unconscious state.

I would like to invite everyone to watch "MOTHMAN Prophecies". It has some ideas I want everyone to ponder upon.

JMC | Come my Brothern Moth, Come Closer To The Flame - Posted on 2006-11-07 14:26:19
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Perhaps my Friend, you intend another word

First, lets describe déjà vu :

The term "déjà vu" (French for "already seen", also called paramnesia) describes the experience of feeling that one has witnessed or experienced a new situation previously.

You stated déjà vu as “there are many occurences in life that we have seen, but have somewhat ignored, and yet is stored in our memory.” Again, my Friend, I must say this is Automatic Pilot. And yes we can, and to often do go on Automatic Pilot. However; I agree we can not, nor do humans go on ‘fully conscious’

Therefore; I am totally intrigued by what you wrote, “I do like to think that we were all aware and conscious, but have chosen to ignore, and thus, not keep it in the conscious memory state, where we can remember it later on.”

Would this concept of yours’ include the Adam and Eve decent from the Garden of Eden? Basically, the theory is, having been cast out from the Garden; we forgot whence we came from. We have no memory, recollection of such, therefore; damned to repeat the same mistakes/sins again and again, until death do us part. Or do you perhaps believe the theory, in the Garden of Eden, it is not written any where in the Bible that man awoke. Therefore; life is but a dream. One big Adam dream. Or is it, one small Atom dream?

Having been cast from the womb, we forget the journey into life. Our first breath. Our first screams. Our first experience with pain. Therefore; forever doomed to repeat birth by regurgitating ideas until they seem ideal, and we give life to them. For example the idea of the wheel has been on a roll. Fire has been ablaze.

Never to remember our first pain, sadly we are made to remember pain over and over again rather physically, mentally, or emotionally.

Having been cast from our Maker, be that God, Aliens, merely our parents, etc., we forget whence we come from, forever longing to return home; back to our Maker.

In re to the movie MOTHMAN Prophecies, certainly there are other movies also that depict your reference. However; the age old question is, does art imitate life or does life imitate art?

hmdaswani | Some corrections - Posted on 2006-11-08 04:03:12
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I accept my mistake in not putting a line, rather, making a major definition misinterpretation of Deja Vu as to premonition.

Deja Vu had its own medical interpretation that makes logical sense (something about the mind's response to an external sense input being a little delayed, making you realize later that you have a feeling you must have seen it somewhere before.

Most of the ideas I have has a line between the possibility, validity, and, explanation on premonition as to free will, chance, and knowledge, which might go along the lines of all the strings of discussions I had.

Most are in the idea that one way or another, our unconscious thought (makes us process things, discussed in absence of free will), which also works thoroughly during sleep state (as per shown in discovery channel wherein a person can become a better piano player after sleeping after practice, as his mind processes and breaks down everything that has happened that day, also explains why we sometimes have the best ideas in the morning, during alpha state), has brought that most of the unconscious thought processes would give us "visions" using chain and logic on many things we saw but ignored or did not pay attention to.

Try to read on creativity and think about it. It follows the same line of thought

rrzhang001 | New Here - Posted on 2007-01-01 23:29:47
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Thankyou JMC for inviting me here! Below is something I wrote in my spare time regarding people's selfishness and tendency to make their decisions regarding to their own happiness:

Selfishness, for as long as generations of people can remember, has been remembered as something that each one of us possess, but rejected by society as a thing of negative attributes. I sincerely reject that idea, for that I think that every decision we make is based on how happy it would make us.

All of our decisions are based on what we think will make us happy (under the assumption that you wish to live a happy life, which will be most of us). There are, of course, many things that determine how happy a decision will make us, and the decisions are not made on how good the outcome is, but rather the particular individual’s ability to foresee the results of the decision.

Some decisions are easy, for example, a rich couple is handing out free money, no catch, no records. You would, obviously, take the money, for that the money can buy you things that will give you happiness. Unfortunately, not that many things I life are that obvious. For example, if the couple mentioned above was giving $5, while they need a record of your phone number and social insurance number. Well, then you have a problem. Would you take it or not? Real life is often more complicated than that, and more likely that not, you would have more than a positive and a negative option; you could, in the above example, give them fake numbers. There are many factors contributing to your decisions, all of which are based on happiness.

Most people think that when you think about your own happiness, you completely forget the benefit of others. That is not entirely true. Humans begin to become attached to things the moment they are born. When people begin to become attached to things, we also consider the benefits of the people/group they become attached with. The more you become attached to somebody/some group, the more you consider their happiness. Of course, the opposite may happen; if you hate somebody, you consider you may damage them, for that their pain causes you happiness (or not, depends on you conscience).

Most decisions have consequences; this is the main factor in making decisions. I cannot think of even one decision in which there are no possible consequences. There seems to be two factors of consequences which affect your decision: the probability of consequences, and its severity. Different people take probability differently. If I was offered 1 million dollars, with a 1% chance of death, I would not take it. Some other person comes, and he/she will accept it happily. The severity is an equally important factor. About 70% of the world’s murder goes unsolved, but the punishment for murder is so sever that it stops people from doing it.

The other factor that concerns your decision is something that humans made in case consequences fail to halt decisions that are damaging to other people. The amount of conscience differs from person to person, and your conscience also differs depending on your sense of right and wrong. One person might think doing something is right, and the other person thinks that it is not. The general amount of conscience is normally changed as a whole, while conscience on a specific matter differs when you opinion of the matter changes.

The decision itself if made by weighing all three together on your own little scale in your mind: happiness, consequences, and conscience. If happiness outweighs the others, the decision is positive, otherwise, it’s negative. If you decide on an alternative, you weigh the alternative on the same scale and look at the results again.

That’s how the human brain makes decisions, which concludes the fact that we are completely selfish because all decisions are made judging form how happy the decision will make us.

KKama67 | Can we go back to Dejavu? - Posted on 2007-01-02 11:36:39
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I read this in an article...

"Basically these theories link déjà vu with a misfiring of brain signals related to memory and recollection. Connections have been found between the experience of déjà vu and disorders such as schizophrenia and anxiety. People with these disorders are more likely to experience a déjà vu phenomenon than the rest of society."

"The strongest pathological association of déjà vu is with temporal lobe epilepsy. People with this form of epilepsy often report experiencing déjà vu. This correlation has led some researchers to believe that the experience of déjà vu is a neurological anomaly related to improper electrical discharge in the brain."

Is this implying that if you experience dejavu that you are more likely to have one of these disorders?? I mean the rest of society doesn't experience dejavu according to this person. I thought dejavu had a more paranormal connection rather than a disorder or pathological association.

hmdaswani | On Deja Vu - Posted on 2007-01-03 06:46:53
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There are certain things that could nag a person in this aspect.

The one primary idea - Misfiring, or late firing neurons registering the complete idea on your brain once your eyes have registered it has seen something. This is quite like realizing you're staring at a duck even in unconsciously you do know you're staring at a duck. It could be a sub-conscious getting to the conscious in a delayed state. Think of it as sleep walking as well, wherein memory was not able to actually record or keep the conscious aware of whatever is happening, but the person is perfectly familiar with what to avoid, what to open, etc.

This is also similar to the alien hand syndrome, where the conscious cannot control his hand, who seems to be moving on his own free will. Remember, the hand, being blind and deaf, moves along as if it can see and hear. The brain takes the registrations from all senses, and goes autonomous instead, causing it to take command from deep within. (Quite like mutiny)


What about the other aspect of Deja Vu? People who have sworn they have seen such place or event before? People who swore they have dreamt of the said situation in the past, and realizing it unfold in front of their eyes? Some of us had that experience, and could swear by it, being that in some situations, the dream itself was unforgettable as well. Could you then say that there is a distinctive line between Deja Vu and ESP? Would we then have to redefine the said definitions? What would be the exact definition then?

hmdaswani | I once wrote on greed, the basic idea of good, and free will - Posted on 2007-01-03 06:48:39
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rrzhang001, you might like to view my stuff on my blog and comment further, there are some points you might find interesting (and controversial). It can help us further discuss your idea on greed

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